Friday Evening Question #6: Ugliest Dream Garage (night repost)

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty) 01/17/2014 at 22:30 • Filed to: Friday evening question, feq, 318ti, e36, 3 series, bmw, ugly

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Many fantastic cars that you lust after may be unattractive, strange looking, or simply do not have an appearance that could be argued for as being pretty or interesting, but simply make you imagine the day when you can finally drive one home as your own. Sometimes these cars are ugly in a "good way," while you cannot simply explain your affinity for others. In other cases, a car may simply be good enough in other respects or be quirky enough to compensate for its misgivings in the styling department. Of course, eclectic qualities in cars are celebrated here, but at times someone may proclaim their inclination towards a certain car while most people will deride it due to its appearance even if they do acknowledge its positive characteristics.

One example of such a car is the E36 Compact (only available as a 318ti here in the US). Some of us will not touch it due to its somewhat girly and unbecoming design (despite recognizing its strengths), while some accept it, like it, and would be willing to own one based on its merits as a fun car. It's not an inherently ugly car, but it is often bemoaned for being the ugliest BMW of the good ole days. Nonetheless, it is a very fun car to drive and a practical one at that. In fact, I don't mind the design much at all and think it is a worthwhile sacrifice for the great handling and oversteering tendencies. Anyways, popular opinion is really what dictates the general view of a car, and the general consensus is that the E36 compact doesn't have much to offer in the looks department. Today's FEQ is:

Which ugly or unattractive cars do you most wish to own, find acceptable or cool looking despite popular opinion, or find good enough to make you to overlook their looks?

Another 90s Bimmer that can be put in the same category of being cool but not beautiful

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Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:03

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Prowler is Fugly. But i like it.

Can i put a V8 in it and make it jalop-worthy?

if i can't, i'll just wish toyota made an AWD Twin Turbo Camry. Because ultimate sleeper.

TheJWT > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:05

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I love me some Alfa 75...

Orange Exige > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:10

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Good question - I appreciate and actually like a lot of 80s and early 90s designs so a ton of what I like may be considered ugly to some.

The E36 I always hear is "the ugliest 3-series" - and my friend always rags on me about this - but it's second to the E30 imo. (The ti is kinda ugly though, c'mon. but I wouldn't necessarily pass it up if I found a decent cheap one)

Some people think the 2nd and 3rd gen MR2's look best but I think people are smokin crack because the AW11 is easily the best looking of the bunch. And the SW20 (2nd gen) which people usually like or at least don't have a problem with - is the epitome of ugly 90s and easily the ugliest MR2.

Like I said, a lot of other perceived "ugliness" comes from the 80s when we had boxy cars and sharp edges - I personally like that.
I'm trying to think of any particularly "ugly" cars that I'd want but I got nothing else off the top of my head.

The 90s 300ZX is one ugly car that - however good it is - will always be too ugly for me to touch, let alone own.

YSI-what can brown do for you > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:10

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For me? It would have to be the a S13 240sx hatch or coupe. Although I think they look fantastic, my friend says they are ugly. DOES HE KNOW WHAT HE IS MISSING OUT ON!!!!

wizkashifa > TheJWT 01/17/2014 at 18:14

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False, an Alfa cannot be ugly.

YSI-what can brown do for you > wizkashifa 01/17/2014 at 18:14

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This is truth

Orange Exige > YSI-what can brown do for you 01/17/2014 at 18:15

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Not ugly!

The 90s had waaaaaaaaay worse. Hell, Nissan in the 90s had way worse *cough* 300ZX *cough*

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:16

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I don't know why but this does it for me for some reason. I like how unconventional it is. Ugly? Yes! but in sort of a good way. I would totally drive this!

YSI-what can brown do for you > Orange Exige 01/17/2014 at 18:17

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People seem to like the 300zx over the S13. Don't ask me why. . . I think they are wrong.

SwissTony > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:19

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Early 3.2 Manual Boxster. Not the prettiest thing out there, but I think I would find a place for it in a perfect garage. Next to a 944 S2 and a 964 RS.

Orange Exige > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:19

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Actually I did come up with a specific one - a first gen Saab 900. An not even necessarily a turbo one like that pictured. Speaking of which - LOOK AT THOSE WHEELS JESUS CHRIST. I'd rock those for two days before the ugliness started breaking me down emotionally.

The newer 900's (and other newer weird Saab hatchbacks) are too ugly for my taste. But the two door first gen 900... yes please.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Orange Exige 01/17/2014 at 18:21

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Good one! I was initially going to use it as the example but I figured I should use something a bit less celebrated on here. Agreed on newer ones.

TheJWT > wizkashifa 01/17/2014 at 18:23

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That's what I say, but it seems like people are always saying "It drives great, but it's a shame about the looks"

SwissTony > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:31

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What I am wondering is, would there be anyone, who would pick a C class hatchback over a coupe or estate model? I just never figured out why do these exist? Who buys them?

camaroboy68ss > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:45

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For me it's a 37 ford pickup I have always liked them but its always funny to bring it up to my grandpa because he flat out hates them. Most people don't like the "horse collar" grill I freaking love it!

Orange Exige > YSI-what can brown do for you 01/17/2014 at 18:47

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I shudder at that thought.

All of Nissan's Silvia have been great looking cars. The 300ZX I don't understand...

It went up against the likes of the Supra and the RX7 - two of the most beautiful cars of the 90s (better looking than most sports cars that followed them too - and Nissan just shit the bed in terms of aesthetics.

AMC/Renauledge > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:53

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toadterror > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 18:53

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Interesting question. Expecting lots of cries of 'that's not ugly!!'

So what I've tried to do is pick the cars that have better looking siblings - lets say younger (or sometimes older) sisters.

The 996 911 - Never going to come out on top compared to her older and younger sisters- I'd still hit that.

The Peugeot 309 GTi - A great car but has always fallen in the shadow of it's little sister the 205 GTi - despite using near identical chassis and by all accounts the 309 being the better steer.

The 360 - I think she's a beaut - but it's never going to pop like a 458 or even a 430. Some say she's a little bland. 10/10 would drive. Manuel in black please.

AMC/Renauledge > AMC/Renauledge 01/17/2014 at 18:56

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AMC/Renauledge > AMC/Renauledge 01/17/2014 at 19:00

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JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > toadterror 01/17/2014 at 19:04

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Good ones. I would love to have any of those, despite the fact that everyone is running to their successors and predecessors.

toadterror > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 19:08

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Hear, hear!

AMC/Renauledge > AMC/Renauledge 01/17/2014 at 19:13

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matt > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 19:35

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I think the Marcos Mantis to most people probably looks like what it's named after but I love it.

911e46z06 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 19:58

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I will be importing one of these ugly little beasts in the not too distant future

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > 911e46z06 01/17/2014 at 20:04

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I am speechless. Can't wait to hear about it! The Integrale's quite an interesting looking car.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Orange Exige 01/17/2014 at 20:05

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Hey, I am on your side. I have always loved the Silvia's!! I want one too.

On the note of the RX-7 and Supra. I always thought the RX-7 was much more understated and a lot sexier.

911e46z06 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 20:13

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Yeah, I definitely dig the looks, but it isn't exactly good-looking.

awe46m3zcp > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 20:31

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The Squash aka E86 aka Z4M coupe!

Jonee > AMC/Renauledge 01/17/2014 at 20:52

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I keep looking and the only one I'd call ugly is the Buick.

Jonee > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 21:00

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Some of my favorite ugly cars:

PanchoVilleneuve ST > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 22:33

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Q: Are we not men? A: We are Stelvio!

dogisbadob > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 22:36

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The 318ti is not ugly. It's awesome, especially with the canvas sunroof. It's the second-best BMW ever, behind only the Isetta.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > dogisbadob 01/17/2014 at 22:39

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I love the 318ti, as I said in the article. I just have to go by popular opinion here in determining what is considered "ugly" and what is considered attractive. The cars don't have to be completely bad looking, either—just not good looking. I personally like the E36 compacts a great deal, but most people are put-off by the styling. They're great handling and fun-to-drive little cars, from what I hear.

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 01/17/2014 at 22:42

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That's because most people (in the US) know the S13 only by the 240SX front end:

CPT Speedbump > YSI-what can brown do for you 01/17/2014 at 22:46

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Who in the world are these 'people' ? O.o you need to hang out with some normal people, lol

GhostZ > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 22:47

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Mustang II with a blown 302 for hoonage

Mercury Marauder for daily driving

S12 Silvia for corners (VG30E, with a turbo from a 300ZX)

Dodge Polara with supercharged 413 Wedge for straight line stuff.

6cyl > Orange Exige 01/17/2014 at 22:48

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1990: The 1990 300-ZX Turbo is named Motor Trend's "Import Car of the Year". Motor Trend also names it, "One of the Top Ten Performance Cars". Automobile Magazine honors the 300-ZX/300ZX Turbo as its "Design of the Year", and names the 300ZX Turbo to its "All Stars" list. Road & Track names the 300ZX Turbo "One of the Ten Best Cars in the World". Car and Driver names the 300ZX Turbo "One of the 10 Best Cars".

1991: The 300ZX Turbo is named to Car and Driver 's "10 Best" list, and is once again one of Automobile Magazine's "All-Stars".

1992: For the third straight year, Car and Driver names the 300ZX Turbo one of its "10 Best" , and Automobile Magazine names it to its "All-Stars" list.

1993: For the fourth straight year, the 300ZX Turbo is named a Car and Driver "10 Best" , and one of Automobile Magazine's "All-Stars".

1994: For the fifth straight year, the 300ZX Turbo is named to the "10 Best" and "All Stars" lists by Car and Driver and Automobile Magazine, respectively.

1995: For the sixth straight year the 300ZX Turbo is named to the "10 Best" list by Car and Driver.

1996: For the seventh straight year the 300ZX Turbo is named to the "10 Best" list by Car and Driver, this is also the final year of US sales.

Even after production stopped magazines have continued to rave and award the 300ZX years later.

2004: Automobile lists the Z32 as one of the 100 greatest cars of all time.

2006: Automobile lists the Z32 on both the "20 Greatest Cars of the Past 20 years" and the "25 Most Beautiful Cars in History".

"once again beautiful, so sleek and tight and shimmering that it still looks great ten years after it went away" -Automobile, 2006

2010: GQ Magazine lists the Z32 as one of the most stylish cars over the past 50 years.

Some people would disagree.

...I AM NOT BEING DEFENSIVE!!!

...

Well maybe a little bit.

CPT Speedbump > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 22:48

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Is this considered ugly? Iuno, but I want one. Hoping I'll be able to afford to import one someday

Textured Soy Protein > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 22:51

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I'll take a Panamera Turbo S please.

Sn210 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 22:54

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These are all on my bucket list

JasonStern911 > toadterror 01/17/2014 at 22:55

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If those cars are your idea of ugly, never visit a Toyota/Honda/Ford/Chevy/etc. dealership.

Mathias Rios > GhostZ 01/17/2014 at 23:00

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Marauders are beautiful. howwwww

stuttgartobsessed > Textured Soy Protein 01/17/2014 at 23:00

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I drove a GTS and it was amazingly fun and sounded sooooooo good. I actually don't mind the styling as much as most people.

Orange Exige > 6cyl 01/17/2014 at 23:02

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I will never understand.

I wish I had a reason to be biased or something, but I don't! I just think that the 300ZX is hideous! Even if that's overreacting a little, I still cannot say that it remotely borders on attractive.

I mean, I get the fact that it's a great car and one of the best mechanically that the 90s had to offer - and I wouldn't think it strange if certain car magazines overlooked its unattractiveness because of it - but the things that concern me are the last couple bullets you have...

I never saw the 300ZX in the 90s (not that I'd remember if I did anyway...) and so I can't give an opinion from that perspective, but I can give one now and I'm baffled at how entirely different it is from these other modern design perspectives.

I don't have the most normal taste is car design, but I don't think it's that abnormal...

toadterror > JasonStern911 01/17/2014 at 23:08

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Ugliest dream garage.

GhostZ > Mathias Rios 01/17/2014 at 23:12

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They are not beautiful . They are good looking and cult cars, but they're not beautiful. They are intended not to stand out.

Clown Shoe Pilot > GhostZ 01/17/2014 at 23:14

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I had an S12 for my first lemons car.

We sold it and bought a prelude from the same year (1986). That was dumb.

I think the S12 is on at least its 3rd team now and still works fine.

JasonStern911 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 23:15

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Like half the cars mentioned here are beautiful cars. Is the Boxster ugly for a Porsche? Maybe, but that's still like complaining about the ugliest Victoria Secret model. So, let's do this right. The real ugly cars are going to be from the late 70s/early to mid 80s, as cars from that era have aged enough to lose whatever charm they had new, but aren't old enough for the styling to become classic again.

Lotus Europa :

Sure, it has dated styling and the rear visibilty of a cargo van, but it's still a mid-engine Lotus.

Subaru Brat:

Slow, even in turbo form. But those rear facing rear seats that come out! With four-wheel drive and the ability to fit a quad or a motorcycle with the tailgate down, they're surprisingly practical.

Volvo 240 Estate Diesel :

So ugly, so dated. And yet it's a rear-wheel drive diesel wagon. What, besides the looks, is not to love?

Toyota MR2 (AW11) :

Oh, the 80's, before safety regulations where EVERY EDGE had to be so straight it cut a pedestrian just by bumping into them. But mid-engine, rear-wheel drive, 4AGE (with a supercharged option). So awesome despite zero storage space. Feel free to swap this one with any of the early/mid-80s rear-wheel drive Toyotas (Starlet, Celica, Celica Supra).

AMC Eagle :

Because four-wheel drive wagons are awesome, and the wooden paneling could be used to keep you warm in winter should you ever run out of firewood.

toadterror > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 23:16

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Guys! Guys!

toadterror > toadterror 01/17/2014 at 23:17

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This goes in here too

banjo cat ghost of oppo past > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/17/2014 at 23:45

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Times eleventy billion in convertible form! It makes me want to dress like Simon Phoenix and pillage a dystopian future hellscape with my road pirate hooker. The AMC Eagle literally looks like something passed by Lee Iacocca an I badly want a wagon to storm ski mountains in. the ugliest one I can think of wanting other than an ls1 318i

PRBot II > Orange Exige 01/18/2014 at 00:06

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Ok, its Friday night, I'm at a bar getting ready to leave and I'm on my phone now, but I gotta step in here. The 300 zx was still the hot shit back when I was getting my learners permit. In 90s talk, it was phat. It was tha bomb. Today it looks dated, but a teenager I would have killed for one of those. My uncles friend had one. He used to play drums for a 70s band called Spyro Gryra, and after a drum lesson, he let check it out up close. The thing was black on black, and it was pure 90s sex. You had to be there back then, its the only way I can really describe it.

PushToStart > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/18/2014 at 00:09

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Because racecar

But in all seriousness, I'd take one of these:

TheJWT > toadterror 01/18/2014 at 00:29

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I've never understood how people can think the 360 is ugly.

twinturbobmw > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/18/2014 at 00:29

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The 360 Challenge is ugly, and I love that thing.

TheJWT > matt 01/18/2014 at 00:33

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From the side it's downright pornographic

daender > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/18/2014 at 00:39

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The R33 is considered the ugly duckling of the trio but I love it, even with the Veilside bodykit.

Some say even the post-'70 B-body Mopars were ugly but I'd gladly take a Hemi GTX, RoadRunner, or Charger, such an intimidating car in all-black.

The DR30 Skyline, so unappreciated and unloved but now totally import-legal and far more JDM than any Civic, Supra, or RX-7.

F

Finally an Alpina B7 because I'd Ray Wert that high-luxury butt.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/18/2014 at 00:44

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Personally, this is what I'd have, but with a bored out 1.9 (from the original 1.6) with a 20V conversion (from the original 16V). Big brakes, sway bars etc. to make it even better! This way, it'd be a blast to hoon about in southern Europe when I'm there! Estimate it'd have 190-210hp, and same tq figures!

Textured Soy Protein > stuttgartobsessed 01/18/2014 at 01:18

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I don't mind the styling either. I'm a hatchback fan. I recognize that a lot of people think it's a bit...ungainly. Wouldn't stop me though.

toadterror > TheJWT 01/18/2014 at 01:37

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I know. It's fantastic looking! Better still in the flesh

Dsscats > toadterror 01/18/2014 at 03:49

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You want Manuel? What did he ever do to you!?

YSI-what can brown do for you > CPT Speedbump 01/18/2014 at 05:57

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Well one likes cars, but isn't a full on car guy. The other ones are just regular old dudes. It is very hard convincing them that the car looks good, which it does. I am trying to convince one of them to get a S13 hatch as his next car!

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 01/18/2014 at 05:57

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I like that as well!!!

Aloha Milkyway > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/18/2014 at 06:13

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Am I the only person who thinks this looks a tad, er, off? I always thought of them as W124's with the '96 Taurus headlights. Still, the E55 makes such a potent sleeper it makes me want one. For me, it's ugly but effective. While we're at it, might as well add a BMW E60 530d for a daily.

GhostZ > YSI-what can brown do for you 01/18/2014 at 07:17

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I remember talking to one S13 owner (not in a city) who always complained of it being mistaken for a Ford Probe.

I think the S13 is beautiful and friendly, and I love the S14 Kouki and S15, but not everyone considers the 180SX/240SX that pretty, and by comparison, I don't think they're nearly as good looking as the JDM S13.

GhostZ > Clown Shoe Pilot 01/18/2014 at 07:21

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Extremely lightweight, RWD, manual, 3.0l V6, what's not to love? They're like an AE86 that is more powerful, with a real sport suspension, and major engine upgrades. And even if you don't find a V6 version, you can still get ahold of a CA18DET. Europe also got the ultra-desirable FJ20ET engine from the Skyline, which was basically an SR20DET before the SR20. A homog engine, throw an intercooler, intake, cam and some more boost onto it and you have a 250-260HP reliable 2.0l 4 cylinder engine, thanks to its massive bore and short stroke.

I have a dream of fitting a Z32 twin turbo drivetrain into one, which should be theoretically a clean swap (same engine, same mounts, just got to make sure it still fits the 5-speed in the Silvia, I don't think they're the same transmission) if you can find a place to squeeze the turbos, and an R230 LSD. With a little bump in boost, that's 400HP in a 2800lb car easily, that looks like a 85HP Corolla. Quite the sleeper.

Orange Exige > PRBot II 01/18/2014 at 10:25

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That's what I'm thinking...

But still - this aesthetic praise a decade or two later is weird. You do at least admit it looks dated and it is very much a 90s sports car.

PRBot II > Orange Exige 01/18/2014 at 10:29

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Yeah, it's way dated at this point. It just hasn't aged as gracefully as some other 90's cars have.

toadterror > Dsscats 01/18/2014 at 14:02

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Damn Auto-correct. Why does it always have to be autos!!

YSI-what can brown do for you > GhostZ 01/18/2014 at 14:03

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Not big on the Kouki, looks too smooshed. I think the USDM version looks much better in the S14s case, but I think I am alone here.

Also which S13 are we talking about here? I am assuming the hatch, which I can see people not liking as much. But the coupe? They got that so right, but I might be a bit biased.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > JasonStern911 02/01/2014 at 03:10

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At first I was like " THE AW11 IS BEAUTFUL!!" then I remembered that I'm a nerd for 80's Japanese styling and most ppl hate it.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Sn210 02/01/2014 at 03:14

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Dat Inifiniti M45. A car that was undeniably made to be slammed

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 02/01/2014 at 03:15

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nothing Will I. Am does is good. ever.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > awe46m3zcp 02/01/2014 at 03:16

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There is a guy that lives in my town in northern WI on Lake Superior that daily drives a yellow one 365. I caught up with him once and told him he is awesome for driving it all year like that.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > SwissTony 02/01/2014 at 03:17

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the hatch is cool, and they are pretty "cheap" now.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > PushToStart 02/01/2014 at 03:19

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I've always wanted a Merker... well since I knew they existed, but i like em better w the two tone.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 02/01/2014 at 03:22

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For me it'd be a early 80's Supra. I know this car is butt ugly but I love it.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > toadterror 02/01/2014 at 03:23

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buys eyes are my favorite Scooby.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > banjo cat ghost of oppo past 02/01/2014 at 03:25

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Dad?

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > GhostZ 02/01/2014 at 03:29

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yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup they only stand out to those who know what they are.

JasonStern911 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/01/2014 at 13:24

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I feel you. A Corolla FX-16 just popped up on Craigslist this morning, and I had consciously remind myself that I would almost never drive it and have nowhere to park it in order to not impulse buy it. It would almost be worth it just to hear my girl ask if I was intentionally trying to buy the ugliest car I could find. :)

Frenchlicker > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 02/01/2014 at 17:41

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HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/02/2014 at 23:59

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Dang it BUG eyes